I ended this episode saddened by something I never thought would even catch my attention. I’m white, 64, and center-left. Nobody would accuse me of wokeness. But, when JVL mentioned James Carville’s position that Stacey Abrams’ chances are considerably better than the CW (and JVL really downplayed what Carville actually said) Sarah’s snort of derision about Abrams caught my attention, because it was so dismissive. She further derided Abrams’ claims about the 2018 gubernatorial race, ignoring that the opposing candidate was the SOS and running the election. I don’t know what chicanery there was, if any, but Abrams is a serious person and few people are less deserving of derision.
Thus, my antenna was up when Sarah dismissed a television show starring “Elaine Goldsberry, who was in Hamilton,” quickly pivoting to Sara Bareilles.
The Tony-winning actress is *Renee Elise* Goldsberry. Unlike Bareilles, but like Abrams, she’s black. I assume Sarah knew she’d be talking about the show, but didn’t bother to learn the black actress’ name.
I’m probably more insensitive to racism than I should be, so if this caught my attention it was bad. It was not subtle. I remain appalled. If Sarah doesn’t realize how she sounded she needs to go back and listen to herself, and then do some work on herself.
The discussion about Biden’s speech left me cold; the idea that a POTUS should appoint a surrogate to defend democracy and to call out extremism is ludicrous, but the capper was Sarah’s assertion that she doesn’t “like his voice,” and consequently the message of the speech annoyed her. The inanity of the entire discussion was below the erudition I associate with Bulwark podcasts. And, if people don’t think Pete Buttigieg is the most skilled surrogate of the administration, they’re asleep. JVL brought him up, but Sarah again just ignored that and pivoted. The whole speech segment was obnoxious and incorrect.
Not a good experience, this show. Racism and silliness about a president’s voice and role in the free world made me a) sorry I wasted the hour listening and b) glad to take another hour to call it out.
I listened to the podcast two days late, on Sunday morning. When I had an opportunity to read the comments I was heartened to read of the critiques of JVL and Sarah Longwell. What is wrong with you two? You might as well be offering the critique that Biden said he’d be a uniter. There is no uniting those which have no interest in doing so. I appreciate that you were thinking aloud. Now time to reassess again. There’s plenty food for thought on the earlier comments. To hell with “hugging.”
There are more Dems than you think, that would agree with what Sarah and JVL are saying. Just because they aren't in this comment section doesn't mean they don't exist.
I think JVL forgot some of his own advice with his opinion that Biden should just “hug it out”. And that is, you cannot negotiate with people who are negotiating in bad faith.
The entire Republican MAGAs are all operating in bad faith.
I love the recognition that you all were being too optimistic. And then go darker. 🤣 Also love the baseball talk - Sarah, right priorities, finish the game, then the speech. And for those who aren't keen on semi-fascism, I'd go with authoritarian followers and their authoritarian leaders. John Dean's book Authoritarian Nightmare makes the point that you can't have one without the other. Perhaps these neighbors, friends, uncles would be amenable to a discussion of what it means to have an authoritarian leader directing their lives and what the downsides to that are.
The President has a moral and political duty to call out, to identify, the enemies of our government, our Constitution, and our nation. Was FDR wrong in his "Day of Infamy" speech by identifying the Empire of Japan as our enemy?
Add to Rauch's recitation of facts, the armed, violent seditious elements seen by Proud Boys, 3 Percenters, and Oath Keepers - both leaders and members on January 6, 2020 - and we have, as President Biden stated, the (THE) immediate serious Threat Against our government, Constitution, and nation.
No one can, or does, deny that Trump, the twice-impeached and electorally defeated former President, is the soul and sole source of MAGAism. MAGAism is not, in my view, an ideology. It is a political theology where the twice-impeached, electorally defeated, and multi-business failure is the center of an Alternate Soul-less Theocracy. Other than this, I have no opinion of the Golden Calf of MAGAism.
I love you Sarah but for the first time I completely disagree with yours and JVL analysis. Biden gave the speech of his life and his best oratory to date. Has he not said what he said he would have been derelict in his duty. These are not normal times. MAGA Republicans are threatening to overthrow our government. He speech was not divisive. He gave all good people who care about our democracy to join him to help save it. That eliminates ONLY MAGA republicans who threaten to overthrow our government.
Truth is True. Trumpism is fascism. Here are the words of Mussolini: Militaristic, violent, controlling but most of all fascism requires adherence to the overheated morality of the herd and the rejection of one's own individual conscience. Yes Carville is right MAGA made Trump. Now we must stand up to it and stop it. And absolutely there will be conflict. But if we flinch now, the losses will only increase with every day we continue to try to appease MAGA.
"Far from crushing the individual, the Fascist State multiplies his energies, just as in a regiment a soldier is not diminished but multiplied by the number of his fellow soldiers. The Fascist State organizes the nation... It has curtailed useless or harmful liberties while preserving those which are essential. In such matters the individual cannot be the judge, but the State only. The Fascist!" Doctrine of Fascism, 1932
Listening several days later. Trump said Stand back and stand by. Stand down would've been a million times better.
Girls 5 Eva is amazing!!!!!!!!!!! Glad to see someone else hyping it!!!
I ended this episode saddened by something I never thought would even catch my attention. I’m white, 64, and center-left. Nobody would accuse me of wokeness. But, when JVL mentioned James Carville’s position that Stacey Abrams’ chances are considerably better than the CW (and JVL really downplayed what Carville actually said) Sarah’s snort of derision about Abrams caught my attention, because it was so dismissive. She further derided Abrams’ claims about the 2018 gubernatorial race, ignoring that the opposing candidate was the SOS and running the election. I don’t know what chicanery there was, if any, but Abrams is a serious person and few people are less deserving of derision.
Thus, my antenna was up when Sarah dismissed a television show starring “Elaine Goldsberry, who was in Hamilton,” quickly pivoting to Sara Bareilles.
The Tony-winning actress is *Renee Elise* Goldsberry. Unlike Bareilles, but like Abrams, she’s black. I assume Sarah knew she’d be talking about the show, but didn’t bother to learn the black actress’ name.
I’m probably more insensitive to racism than I should be, so if this caught my attention it was bad. It was not subtle. I remain appalled. If Sarah doesn’t realize how she sounded she needs to go back and listen to herself, and then do some work on herself.
The discussion about Biden’s speech left me cold; the idea that a POTUS should appoint a surrogate to defend democracy and to call out extremism is ludicrous, but the capper was Sarah’s assertion that she doesn’t “like his voice,” and consequently the message of the speech annoyed her. The inanity of the entire discussion was below the erudition I associate with Bulwark podcasts. And, if people don’t think Pete Buttigieg is the most skilled surrogate of the administration, they’re asleep. JVL brought him up, but Sarah again just ignored that and pivoted. The whole speech segment was obnoxious and incorrect.
Not a good experience, this show. Racism and silliness about a president’s voice and role in the free world made me a) sorry I wasted the hour listening and b) glad to take another hour to call it out.
I listened to the podcast two days late, on Sunday morning. When I had an opportunity to read the comments I was heartened to read of the critiques of JVL and Sarah Longwell. What is wrong with you two? You might as well be offering the critique that Biden said he’d be a uniter. There is no uniting those which have no interest in doing so. I appreciate that you were thinking aloud. Now time to reassess again. There’s plenty food for thought on the earlier comments. To hell with “hugging.”
He said stand back and stand by, different than stand down.
Policy Differences:
- Let's increase the marginal tax rate by 3%, Or Not
- Let's build a fence on the southern border, Or Not
- Let's build a pipe line to Canadian tar supplies, Or Not
- Let's send F-15s to Taiwan, Or Not
Benevolent Dictatorship:
- Let's allow the rape victim to take Plan B pills, only if she reports the incident
I am glad to see the Marine band behind the President.
There are more Dems than you think, that would agree with what Sarah and JVL are saying. Just because they aren't in this comment section doesn't mean they don't exist.
I think JVL forgot some of his own advice with his opinion that Biden should just “hug it out”. And that is, you cannot negotiate with people who are negotiating in bad faith.
The entire Republican MAGAs are all operating in bad faith.
Gretchen whimore Pres. And Mayor Pete VP.
Gretchin Witmer.
I love the recognition that you all were being too optimistic. And then go darker. 🤣 Also love the baseball talk - Sarah, right priorities, finish the game, then the speech. And for those who aren't keen on semi-fascism, I'd go with authoritarian followers and their authoritarian leaders. John Dean's book Authoritarian Nightmare makes the point that you can't have one without the other. Perhaps these neighbors, friends, uncles would be amenable to a discussion of what it means to have an authoritarian leader directing their lives and what the downsides to that are.
The President has a moral and political duty to call out, to identify, the enemies of our government, our Constitution, and our nation. Was FDR wrong in his "Day of Infamy" speech by identifying the Empire of Japan as our enemy?
Do any real, not alternate, facts inform the conclusion that MAGAism is the prime domestic threat to our government, Constitution, and nation? Yes; read "Trump’s Second Term Would Look Like This" by Jonathan Rauch, published on August 29 2022 in The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-2024-reelection-viktor-orban-hungary/671264/).
Add to Rauch's recitation of facts, the armed, violent seditious elements seen by Proud Boys, 3 Percenters, and Oath Keepers - both leaders and members on January 6, 2020 - and we have, as President Biden stated, the (THE) immediate serious Threat Against our government, Constitution, and nation.
No one can, or does, deny that Trump, the twice-impeached and electorally defeated former President, is the soul and sole source of MAGAism. MAGAism is not, in my view, an ideology. It is a political theology where the twice-impeached, electorally defeated, and multi-business failure is the center of an Alternate Soul-less Theocracy. Other than this, I have no opinion of the Golden Calf of MAGAism.
Hug It Out my ass. Root It Out.
I love you Sarah but for the first time I completely disagree with yours and JVL analysis. Biden gave the speech of his life and his best oratory to date. Has he not said what he said he would have been derelict in his duty. These are not normal times. MAGA Republicans are threatening to overthrow our government. He speech was not divisive. He gave all good people who care about our democracy to join him to help save it. That eliminates ONLY MAGA republicans who threaten to overthrow our government.
Trump actually said, "Stand BACK, and stand by," with regard to the Proud Boys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIHhB1ZMV_o
Truth is True. Trumpism is fascism. Here are the words of Mussolini: Militaristic, violent, controlling but most of all fascism requires adherence to the overheated morality of the herd and the rejection of one's own individual conscience. Yes Carville is right MAGA made Trump. Now we must stand up to it and stop it. And absolutely there will be conflict. But if we flinch now, the losses will only increase with every day we continue to try to appease MAGA.
"Far from crushing the individual, the Fascist State multiplies his energies, just as in a regiment a soldier is not diminished but multiplied by the number of his fellow soldiers. The Fascist State organizes the nation... It has curtailed useless or harmful liberties while preserving those which are essential. In such matters the individual cannot be the judge, but the State only. The Fascist!" Doctrine of Fascism, 1932
Not that rare JVL. Think Peloton.